Curse

GiZMo · Jan 25, 2008, 09:47 AM // 09:47

I'm not screaming this because of the current meta, I'm trying to get this out there: there needs to be better, more viable methods of hex removal.

A monk typically runs one condition removal on his bar, and that is sufficient enough, but for hex removal...to wait around 12 seconds to get your hex cleanup back (or 8 of its remove hex), you might just get stacked with that hex again. Let's review the commonly used ones.

Holy Veil: inarguably the most popular hex removal in the game, mainly used for its effect on making hexes take twice as long to cast.

Deny Hex: was used very commonly in the old SoD bar when players brough Divine Spirit as well. Not to mention it cleans up a few if you have the right build.

Remove Hex: a very simple skill with the best recharge of them all.

Convert Hexes: a powerful hex stack cleanup. In my opinion its perfectly fine.

Cure Hex: a new addition, and a nice one, but needs the right bar. But, a whopping 12 seconds to get it back.

Spotless Mind: probably the most imbalanced of the hex removal. I love this skill, don't get me wrong, but in about 15 seconds (would need an enchanting mod) you can get 3 hexes off.

But, I strongly feel the recharge should be tweaked to better fit survivability. Yep, it's really simple to say "zomg dshot that migraine" or "pdrain that price of failure" but once it's up, it's downhill, and once you remove it, by God it can get reapplied. How painful would it be if all condition removal skills had like a 7 second recharge time? Would suck, especially having to clean up blinds and such.

My arguement is to simply lower the recharge to a more appropriate time. Not dramatic, but simple. Examples:

Remove Hex: 4-5 second recharge. It's such a simply addressed skill.
Deny Hex: perhaps 8 seconds (and it'll make players want to bring another divine favor skill)
Holy Veil: 10 sec (but it's fine how it is really)
Cure Hex: 8 seconds.
Smite Hex: 8 seconds.
Spotless Mind: fine how it is
Divert Hexes: increase the hex removal to about 1...4 (making it able to reach 5 with 14 in prot). It's already an awesome elite, but hardly used to be quite honest. Might be too imbalanced but hey, it's an elite skill.

Now Withdraw Hexes. Haven't seen this elite used once. It can rid a team of ALL hexes if they all clump up for 1 second, but the recharge will be through the roof, and you know hexing teams.... BOOM reapplied right away. It could use some looking into. It could really make the meta interesting if the skill lost its latter feature of havning a longer recharge.

Any thoughts or ideas you'd like to through out there?

I just wanted to raise the issue and see what people thought.

Kyrein · Jan 25, 2008, 09:58 AM // 09:58

you want to make it harder for hexers, who already have it pretty bad when theres a monk
/notsigned

MithranArkanere · Jan 25, 2008, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Most hexes have 2..3 seconds casting times.
Most hex removals have 1/4..1 seconds casting times and much lesser costs.

Applying hexes is harder than removing them already.

MagmaRed · Jan 25, 2008, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Most hexes have longer recharges than the hex removal skills do. Decreasing a hex removal recharge would mean those trying to place hexes get them removed, and have to wait 20-30 seconds to try again, and get them removed, again.

Considering there are more than Monk skills that can remove hexes, I'd say there is nothing wrong with it. Paragon, Dervish, and Mesmer can all remove hexes, and Ritualist can use them for more powerful heals.

/unsigned

Red Sonya · Jan 25, 2008, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Personally I think condition removal skills are too many and too fast. Hexes aren't setup to be removed like that and I'm glad because what is the use of casting conditional or hex spells if they are going to be removed in 2 seconds? Hex durations are just fine and there's a mod you can put on your armor to reduce hexes 20% an it wasn't made for nothing. Of course you take some reduction in power, but, why does everyone want their cake an eat it too?

(since people love to /unsign my suggestions) /unsiged as well.

Pyro maniac · Jan 25, 2008, 01:52 PM // 13:52

hexes and hex removal are fine in it's current state: shame/diversion/snare. It takes just a single veil to get rid of them. Problem is however the Arena's with lame builds that stack 6-7 hexes on a single target. Nothing you can do about that and I don't think you should balance them game around that fact.
If hex stack will become meta again in high-end pvp Divert Hexes (and HEV) will come into play.
If you're talking about PvE reading wiki will help you, you should see if you'll need divert/expel or not.
If for PvP, it is fine atm and this thread belongs in glad arena.

Orange Milk · Jan 25, 2008, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Well, tbh there is [skill]Empathic Removal[/skill] and [skill]Expel Hexes[/skill]

Yes they are elites with no healing bonus and are better run on a support Character, but they are there. REALLY tough to drop ZB or WoH to add one of those.

Plus this [skill]Purge Signet[/skill]

Again though, best run on a support character.

I think the skills are there, Just that a Monk's bar is not big enough to use them right. Better Hex removale becomes a job for a support to get the job done right after all there are like half a dozen "non-attribute" Hex removers out there perfect for a supporter. Was hoping that Spotless Mind would really change that, but it still falls slightly short of Veil, and Cure Hex is fail with the Remove Hex buff.

My guess is the answer is if there are more Hexes bring more removers, not 1 super buffed one.

HawkofStorms · Jan 25, 2008, 06:04 PM // 18:04

/notsigned
Most of those skills you are talking about have recieved significant buffs reccently. Hexes are easier to remove now in the last 6 months then they have been at any other point in the games history. It is perfectly balanced now IMHO. Prior to now, hex pressure builds were rampent. Now, they can still be run occassionally, but they are far from the monsters they were before.

Sir Pandra Pierva · Jan 25, 2008, 06:21 PM // 18:21

/notsigned

as a ex hexer I loved the old days of hexing.

But as for now they dont need any more buffs to anti hexes

EDIT:

Unless hexes get some monster buff again

Div · Jan 25, 2008, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Hexes are much more balanced than before nowadays. Sure, it'll still destroy an unprepared team 8v8, but in a good split map, it's much harder for hexes to pick up. In the earlier matches of HA, it means anyone going against hexes is screwed. In the later maps, it's much better. In GvG, it depends on the map played. AB/FA battles are too short-lived for hexes to have a real huge effect. Plus, there's also the chances of near instalosing when the other team has HeV. If hex removal wasn't buffed to the level you proposed before, it shouldn't be now.

Red Sonya · Jan 25, 2008, 08:08 PM // 20:08

I think we have secondary classes for a reason and that gives opportunity for more than just the holy trinity to be in PVP groups as has been stated there are "SUPPORT" classes that can use hex removal without the healing effects. If you don't want to bring SUPPORT classes then it is not the hexes fault, but, the fault of the player and/or the group as a whole. If you don't want to cover against hexes then you have no reason to QQ because of them. You have 8 people in your group for the most part in the meta pvp and that's plenty to setup hex removal cover.

Kanyatta · Jan 25, 2008, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Since pretty much all decent hexes are 10...15 energy and 2...4 second cast, and all hex removals are about 5...10 energy and 1/4....1 second cast, it kind of balances out.

I agree, Eurohex was (maybe still is?) overpowered, but any decent split can take it out. In PvE, hexes really aren't a big deal, unless you have a Tahlk or Dunk that gets cast happy through backfire or something. But, PvE monsters don't know how to cover anyway.

So, basically, it's pretty balanced, as of right now.

/notsigned

Advice: As a monk, don't cast through Diversion or Shame, otherwise, hexes aren't a problem.

RavagerOfDreams · Jan 26, 2008, 02:33 AM // 02:33

as much as i hate it /notsigned

holy veil is a smexy skill and mithrans right hexers got it pritty bad as it is when thers a monk in

@kanyatta
LMAO i highly doubt the poster is dumb enough to cast through diversion but if your party members gunna die u kinda have to cast...
and i actually cast through shame right when it gets on just to make sure i dont get interrupted when i can't afford to be :P(only if team is under pressure)...unless im stacking veil then i just take it off....

and -13 energy don't hurt when you use energy sets

ShadowsRequiem · Jan 26, 2008, 03:13 AM // 03:13

All I can say is bring some hex removal on a support char convert hexes is pretty nice to have on another caster X/Mo.

Imo if you are running into tons of hex stacking teams I have always found Divert hexes to still be nice.

Kyrein · Jan 26, 2008, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavagerOfDreams

mithrans right hexers got it pritty bad as it is when thers a monk in

that was me, not mithran -.-

RavagerOfDreams · Jan 26, 2008, 03:47 AM // 03:47

she did say that ther cast times suck :P
i was more reffering to that sry if i wasnt clear

TheLichMonky · Jan 26, 2008, 12:37 PM // 12:37

I love how everyone copies each others answers xD

Numa Pompilius · Jan 26, 2008, 04:34 PM // 16:34

To the OP: Try running a necro or mesmer hexer. You'll find that your expensive long-casting spells with huge recharge times get removed faster than you can apply them, and that cover hexes usually don't help.
I don't know what this game needs, but it certainly isn't more hex removal or buffed healing.

Kanyatta · Jan 26, 2008, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheLichMonky

I love how everyone copies each others answers xD

Should people apologize for having similar opinions?

Nevin · Jan 26, 2008, 08:37 PM // 20:37

/notsigned

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